All quite true. This story again demonstrates the uselessness of the "moderate" label. As "moderation" is relative to extremes, all the term can tell us is that the "moderate" is perceived as not being as bad as the next guy. It does not, however, imply a forthright and useful engagement of the many problematic aspects of Islamic texts and laws, hence the disappointment expressed below in the performance of "moderate" Muslim leaders thus far. "Muslim leaders 'failing to tackle extremists'," by Ruth Gledhill for the Times Online, March 30:
Muslim leaders have been criticised by a University of Oxford academic for not doing enough to tackle extremists.
At the same time a parliamentary committee has attacked a central plank of the Government's counter-extremism programme by arguing that its "Prevent" strategy has "stigmatised and alienated" Muslims.
Nick Chatrath, a researcher at Oxford's Faculty of Oriental Studies, claims in a paper to be published this week that in the face of growing radicalisation in Britain, Muslim leaders are ignoring extremists' points of view and glossing over some of the more unsavoury parts of Islam's ancient texts.
In an essay in next month's Islam and Christian-Muslim Relations, Mr Chatrath called for a more open engagement by moderate Muslims with the arguments of extremists.
Based on interviews with Anjem Choudary, of the banned extremist group Islam4UK, and Dr Musharraf Hussain, an adviser to the Muslim Council of Britain, Mr Chatrath said: "Moderate Muslim leaders are doing a poor job of tackling extremism in Britain." He said that extremists such as Mr Choudary, who has argued that democracy should be replaced with obedience to Allah, were using the Koran and other ancient texts to justify their actions. He called on moderate community leaders to do more to counter this.
"This attitude must change, as the best way to extinguish extremist arguments is to deal with them out in the open, not just sweep them under the carpet and hope for the best," he said.
"Some recent polls suggest ordinary British Muslims are becoming more sympathetic to extremists, and this could be related to the way moderate Muslims are ignoring the extremist threat."...
Jihad Watch
It's seems hard to dispute the observation that, pursuant to the texts of Islam, the "extremists" seem to be modeling themselves after Muhammed more completely than the "moderates" are. I don't care whether you're a Muslim, Christian, Atheist or Zoroastrian---the fact remains that Islam teaches that Muhammed lived his life by a very different set of values than the Jesus of Christianity did.
[Professor Nick Chatrath] said that extremists such as Mr Choudary, who has argued that democracy should be replaced with obedience to Allah, were using the Koran and other ancient texts to justify their actions.
Right.
He called on moderate community leaders to do more to counter this.
Wrong.
The problem with Chatrath's second statement is the grievously unrealistic expectation it contains. When will the West learn that the great endangered species of the Moderate Muslim is not going to save us from the problems that their Islam is causing us?
"obedience to Allah"
... who is sometimes harsh and demanding and vengeful and nasty
allowing the model of behavior - the Prophet - to be impulsive, greedy, cruel, murderous, perverted,and also nasty
best expose all this; not sweep under the carpet all this.
its just too filthy for an honest academic to touch
When the West in the aggregate realizes that so-called radical Muslims understand Islamic doctrine correctly, and so-called moderate Muslims understand it incorrectly, a corner will have been turned that is most important for the survival of freedom and common sense. Until such time, it's just more rearranging of the deck chairs on the Titanic. Oh yeah, almost forgot, Islam continues unabated to this day to be the world's biggest pain in the ass. That is all.
If so called "radical Muslims" or "radical Islam" is a misnomer, then can we conclude that those who posit this a war against "radical Islam" is a liar or is misinformed?
Moderate muslim, yeah. Jihad lite.
"Radical Islam" is a redundant term. Those who use it are indeed guilty of either ignorance or mendacity. This would include very highly placed public officials in the West, almost all of whom I will be kind to and accord ignorance rather than complicity with wickedness. But such ignorance should be ended sooner rather than later. The survival of the West depends on it.
I made some stupid comments on Jihad Watch while drinking last night. Damn whiskey does it to me every time. Oh well, certainly not the first mistake I’ve made. All apologies.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Interesting article. The “moderates” in my opinion are ironically the worst of Muslims. In truth, these folks are doing far more harm to the well being of humanity than are the “extremists”.
The moderates completely misunderstand Islam and have dedicated their lives to promoting Islam and singing its praises. A worse mistake one cannot make.
These folks choose to acknowledge only the “nice” parts of Islam and deny the fact that Islam is chock-full of evil and is a fundamentally unjust and obscenely cruel religion on the whole.
"Some recent polls suggest ordinary British Muslims are becoming more sympathetic to extremists, and this could be related to the way moderate Muslims are ignoring the extremist threat."...
Becoming more "sympathetic" to extremists?
I would go one step further and state that moderates, or in this case -- ordinary British muslims, are more complicit with extremists than simply being sympathetic. I mean non-muslims can be sympathetic to islamic extremists; but muslims, by virtue of being muslim, have a certain responsibility that non-muslims do not have.
...err, I would include ALL moderates as complicit, so I'm not just singling out the British variety.
""Some recent polls suggest ordinary British Muslims are becoming more sympathetic to extremists, and this could be related to the way moderate Muslims are ignoring the extremist threat."..."
No, the explanation for this is that "moderate Muslims" are a largely inaudible and invisible MINORITY. The fact that they are "moderate" really refers to the fact that they don't practice Islam as it should be practiced - essentially, they are Muslim by virtue of birth or just identify with it to feel part of a clan. This is why the silence of the "moderates" is so deafening when true Muslims (following the example of the most pious Muslim, Muhammed) go around killing non-Muslims because THEY KNOW Islamic terrorists are theologically justified.
No worries Saleem. Johnnie Walker Black tends to do that to me as well - LOL. Partially as a comment to Wellington's commment I just have to say that I couldn't agree more that all these different qualifying labels for Islam (moderate, radical etc.) are dead wrong. What we have is just Islam. Here and there we get little snippets of the truth from the MSM (muslims adhering to ancient Islamic teachings mentioned, which is truth and very key) but overall, a majority of people are really in the dark, and many are there willingly. There is no "Vatican (Caliphate)" to centralize Islamic teachings so we have disparate views all over the place, and people are confused as to what the REAL Islam is all about. It's radical in your right ear, it's moderate in your left, and in the center it's neither. I myself was very confused until I actually took the time to read the Qu'ran and Hadith (and a dozen other books on Islam and the ME) so I can see how average folks just "don't get it." Yet.
What was it that Kevin Spacey's monstrous character said in "Se7en?" Oh yeah, something like "Wanting people to listen you can't just tap them on the shoulder anymore. You have to hit them with a sledgehammer, then you'll notice you've got their strict attention."
9/11, 3/11, 7/7, 9/20, 3/29. These, unfortunately, are the sledgehammers that get the strictest attention. I hate to say it but we can at least count on Islam to keep swinging away until most people actually DO "get it."
Re Sledgehammers.
A few lines of argument that can be made when the Moscow bombing comes up in conversation.
It will be necessary to explain patiently - when fashionable terms such as 'despair' and 'independence struggle' are trotted out - that *the* fundamental reason why the Chechens keep on attacking Russia, *the* reason why they don't want to be part of a broader, non-Islamic polity, is because Muslims are not supposed to be ruled by non-Muslims. "Islam is to dominate, and not be dominated".
One must point out that if the Chechen Muslims were released from the Federation and allowed to set up a completely separate 'Islamic State of Chechenya', the Jihad against Russia would not stop; indeed, it would probably increase in fury. The ultimate 'grievance' of Chechen and of other Muslims in and around Russia is simply that the slavemasters of the Ummah do not yet possess and rule all of Planet Earth.
And certainly the Russians have been brutal toward the Chechen and other Muslims on Russian soil and nearby; but even if Russia were to behave henceforward with as much heroic restraint as the Israelis have exercised toward the local Arab Muslims, it would make no difference; indeed, such restraint would be interpreted as a sign of weakness, and Muslim aggression would likely increase, not decrease.
Islamic extremism grows in an all-pervading, morbid, afterlife-fixated Islamic religiosity, which also prevents "moderate" Muslims from thinking, analysing, protesting or learning.
Saleem mate, I for one thought there was something amiss in your posts as I cannot recall at all in the past you posting anything like that.
If you thought I was being a smart**se I apologise as I have seen your website but after reading your post I was confused. I just needed clarification thats all.
Cheers take care.
DDA I remember a while ago my fatherinlaw who grew up in Hungary told me that Muslims 'NEVER' forget. He stressed to me the fact that a father will leave it up to his sons to take revenge if they can't then it's passed onto the next generation and so on.
So with what's happening in Chechnya will never end even if the seperatists get their independant Islamic State. They have a grudge to bear and they will forever more.
Jihad-crazed Somalis are maiming and murdering their way through Britain's cities: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/features/2912750/Sun-immigration-survey-day-2-Violence-on-the-streets.html